Daily Caller co-founder Tucker Carlson said Thursday on his Twitter show, “The Tucker Carlson Encounter,” that he believes it was pushed by public health officials during the COVID-19 pandemic. He spoke with former New York Times reporter Alex Berenson about “pro-death” measures.

Berenson, who has spoken out against mainstream narratives about the coronavirus, appeared on Carlson's show to discuss previous coverage and questions that remain. Berenson explained to the host that officials were wrong during the coronavirus outbreak, but that “in their view” they did not have malicious intent.

But Carlson hit back at the former NYT reporter, claiming he believes the government is “actively preventing” people from improving their natural health and instead promoting unhealthy lifestyles. (Related: Fauci 'doesn't remember' important COVID-19 pandemic information, House subcommittee chair says)

“What I don't think was widely understood is that the people who are promoting it are not saying that we can't all get infected with COVID-19. Because they didn't understand how quickly they could get it to market. Of course, we all got the coronavirus anyway because the vaccine didn't work, but the idea is that over time the new coronavirus I was told that I would be infected with the coronavirus.

“And the biggest concern as of March 2020 was that hospitals were overcrowded. So we had to convince everyone to stay at home, we had to lock everyone down. So they had to lie about who was at risk. That was the original sin, right? The original sin of COVID-19, the original sin of the vaccine, was pretending it was properly tested. That was the case,” Berenson added.

“Okay, I understand all that, but it was more than that. I mean, we were actively preventing people from getting better. [and] cardiovascular health. “And all the women's magazines that are still influential decided to put fat women on their covers and say that this is the new ideal body type – and soap companies and cosmetics companies too,” Carlson said.

Episode 63 When will the architects of the coronavirus disaster be brought to justice? We asked Alex Berenson. pic.twitter.com/bbZpOzHJ3u

— Tucker Carlson (@TuckerCarlson) January 11, 2024

“This was clearly an organized attempt to make people think it's okay to be fat during a pandemic where fat people are dying. 'I'm trying to kill someone,''' Carlson argued.

Mr. Berenson did not appear to agree with Mr. Carlson's statement, and the host continued to make the comparison in the context of the hypothetical intention of selling cigarettes to children. Mr. Berenson remained hesitant to respond, doubting Mr. Carlson's intentions in the proposal. (Related: American researcher in bed with Wuhan lab misleads Pentagon about civilization-threatening virus research)

“No, I'm serious. If I encourage kids to smoke, aren't I trying to hurt them?” Carlson asked.

“Or maybe you're trying to sell cigarettes. Maybe if 60 percent of the country is obese and you're a dove, you want to sell soap,” Berenson countered.

Mr. Berenson and Mr. Carlson got into an argument over their views on public health officials' intentions, with the Twitter host saying their actions at the time showed “malice.” Carlson then said that public health officials tried to “stop people from getting on treadmills,” until Berenson quickly admitted that they were, in fact, “shut down gyms.” He didn't seem to agree.

Carlson was alluding to Ian Smith, a New Jersey gym owner who was fined $1.2 million in 2020 for disobeying lockdown orders and promised not to pay the state a penny.

“But liquor stores and weed dispensaries will remain open,” Carlson added, agreeing with Berenson. “So, that's the point, see. I'm not some weird internet conspiracy theorist, but how many signs do I need that you're trying to kill me before I say you're trying to kill me?” Is that so?”

“I think people make bad decisions,” Berenson continued.

“Oh, but they're all consistent! It's like they're all pro-death,” Carlson exclaimed.

Documents obtained by Berenson show that during 2022, Berenson disclosed that the Biden administration had asked Twitter to delete his account after he made statements contrary to official positions on the coronavirus. was. Although Berenson's account was reportedly not permanently deleted, Berenson, a former NYT reporter, discovered that the White House had put pressure on the social media site four months before his suspension. Documents revealed that this was the case.